Mining Basics Part 4: Selling Your Ores

This seems like a logical fourth part to my recent series of posts outlining the basics for all the noobs who are coming into Entropia on a daily basis. I am seeing incredible amounts of new people every time I log in. It takes me weeks sometimes to run into another avatar I've seen before. Seriously!

If you look at the totals on Entropia Tracker, say my mining rank is like 700 out of 3000 or something... And you think wow... 3000 people is that all thats here? But then you realize... That's only people who have hoffed and globalled in the last 30 days that are counted. It took me 6 months to get my first global. Then it took another 6, and after that it dropped to 3, and then I started hitting some kind of a global at least once a month... Until now, where I have globalled virtually every day I've played. So just think of how many people there really are playing that are not counted in the globals and hofs.

Anywho... I am a bit off topic here, but that's ok. This is going to be short and quick.

Markup is crucial to your success in any profession. It is the difference between winning and losing. Mindark is not going to guarantee you will win on every run you do. However, what gives you the opportunity to is markup because markup is directly out of other peoples pockets unlike the TT value of items.

There are several things to consider.

1. Rarity and % markup.
2. How many peds worth of each resource you have.
3. Auction fees.
4. Trader prices.
5. Is it worth more refined or unrefined (This may sound dumb, but I will explain why it is valid)
6. Do I fill orders, or do I just list an auction with a buyout?


So lets start with number one...

If a resource is selling for less than 110%, you are generally going to have a hard time pushing it on the auction unless you know what you are doing, and it is going to take a fairly large stack of the stuff to make it worth doing. For instance...

Oil had orders at 104%. I thought ok, I will try refining my 80 ped oil global and sell it to orders. What I didn't expect was, my refiner broke at least two times, so that cost me 4 peds right there. Then there is a matter of the auction fee of nearly a ped or so. My markup was less than 5 peds. I literally didn't gain anything by doing this.

However, it has a lot to do with what is the value per unit. See, refining decay is based on how many units you are refining. It is costlier to refine Crude Oil than say, Angelic flakes or Dianthus... Ped for ped that is. It wasn't worth bothering to refine the oil and fill orders. But I could have 80 peds worth of say, Alicenies and refined it and sold it on an order of 104% and actually made a few pecs.

Depending on the markup it can be cheaper to actually TT the stuff. But on all items you think are TT food, at the very least talk to a trader to see if you can get ANY markup for.

BUT REMEMBER: If you take something like Dunkel... Assume 5K% markup. A trader MUST automatically deduct around 1500 points off that markup and offer you between 3500% and 4000%. Because even with 3500%, the auction fees would take all the profit and then some. And if you think it is easy to sell something so rare, especially when it's not refined, you can try it. If its extremely high markup and rare, so few people even use it that it would be a risk counting on the fact someone using it would actually see your listing and buy it... It's safer in my opinion to sell it as fast as you can as long as the offer is reasonable. Reasonable, in my book, is markup minus auction fees on rare items. On common ores and matters, the standard few percent discount is reasonable.

#2:  If you have 10 peds of lysterium thats worth say, 105%... You are only talking 50 pecs markup. You wont make money with orders. Potentially, you could list a 9.99 ped lot of Lysterium ingots (333) of them for say, 120% and they will sell becuase lots of crafters will pay a little extra for smaller quantities. But you risk also that you might not sell it and lose the auction fees. So you have two options: Hold your ore til you have about 50 to 100 peds worth, or find a trader. Small markups will make a difference, but only on large TT values.

#3: Auction fees are progressive. The more value the item has, and the higher the markup, the faster the increase in auction fee as you up the price. However something you should know is... The auction fee to list what, 200 peds of Cobalt is like 6 peds or something... But to sell say, 900 peds on auction the fee is only like 12 peds. So after a while, economies of scale kick in and the more you can list at once the cheaper it actually gets for you to list. If you were to list four lots of 200, you would be paying nearly 25 peds in fees, versus saving and filling that 900 ped order. The numbers are just approximations from memory, not accurate... But the principle is what I am trying to explain. It will always be CHEAPER to sell the biggest lot that you can sell at one time,

Fees are good though. Why? Because it prevents people from using the auction as a warehouse like so many online games tend to do. If there were no fees, people would simple list everything at astronomical prices and never have to worry about storage for their stuff again. It might not be a big deal now, but back in the day when there was no storage on the asteroid, it would have been considered a major exploit.

Also, it prevents people from flooding the markets or otherwise manipulating them by buying up all the cheaper listings and relisting at much higher prices. The fees force people to list at prices they reasonably expect will find buyers.

I do notice the more I spend in AH fees, the better quality of loot I get... But I have no concrete proof, only observation from my own situation. But just keep your eyes peeled to see if it's making any difference for you or not. There is a lot we may never know about the game.

4: The reason traders are justified in making profit is simple. Most people do not have more than a few peds in any given stack of ore or resources. If you mine with less than a couple hundred peds, you are going to have a varied inventory when you get done. You will be forced to either tt lots too small to put on auction, or find a trader.

Now, when a trader buys from you, he has to consider how the market is. Are prices heading upward, or downward. Is it in high demand or is it not being used much. Whats the current price.

See... The advantage of a trader is this: If you cant list the stuff you have yourself, you either have to wait til you have more, TT it, or sell to the trader. Would you rather have five piles each of 2 peds of 120% ores and trade terminal them, or go to a trader who would give you say 115% for the ores. It is your choice. You can either lose 2 peds in markup by TTing, or you can go to the trader and let him make a few pecs, and lose only half a ped.

In turn, the trader accumulates the ores til he has sufficient amounts to peddle on the auction house or direct to crafters.Traders however, if they are smart, will take a sufficient cut on the ores so that when they have amassed their piles, that they will still make some money after figuring in the fees and etc.

However, if you have piles of ingots worth over 20 peds, and markup is over say 115% or 120%, by all means sell them yourself, in most cases you will get more than a trader will offer. It's just reality. But the exception to this rule... If it is an Ore that doesn;t move fast... Cobalt is very tempermental. If I list it as the lowest auction buyout, someone always undercuts me. But orders are sometimes 10 points below the lowest auction price. The solution? See what a trader will offer you. If Cobalt is 120% on orders and buyouts are no lower than 130, rather than risk being undercut, you might get a trader to give you 125%.

#5: Yes, I have to cover this... Becuase there are separate categories for unrefined and refined ores and enmatters, differences in the market value arise. In the case of chalmon/devils tail... I once sold 20 peds or so TT value, to orders for 560%. I went and checked the devils tail orders... Devil's tail was ordered at 620%. I would have made more money selling it unrefined. So when you have VERY high markup stuff... ALWAYS check the refined and unrefined orders BEFORE you refine it... You can always refine it later, but you can NOT unrefine an ore!

#6; Filling orders vs. Selling on Auction...

Scenario 1: Your ore's lowest buyout is at 120%. The orders are paying 119%. It is best to fill the order. Because even if you do list for say 123%, it might not sell, and for the 4 points difference, i'd rather have my money now. Also a gap like that generally means the price is going to be dropping so is best to be done with it than stuck with an overmarked up listing.

Scenario 2: Orders are at 120%, but lowest buyout is 130%. This is what I have experienced with Cobalt on a somewhat regular basis. Because the cobalt is virtually impossible to move without filling orders for me, I would opt to take it to a trader or fill the orders. Any other ore though, I would just do a listing at slightly under the lowest buyout if I needed the peds right now. If I wasn't in a hurry, I would find the lowest price listing around the size lot I had, and list just a little bit below that. People are going to always pay a little higher markup for smaller lots of resources.

Scenario 3: Make note of what the lowest auction buyout is, and then ask a trader, if there are no orders. If the trader offers you an amount somewhat close to that figure, do the math and see how much of a difference it is and if it is acceptable, take the trade. Otherwise, see Scenario 2.

I hope this helps clarify some situations and help you understand some of the dynamics at work in the market place. I will go through and clarify and rewrite this over time... Maybe add better examples and make it simpler to understand... But in the mean time, good luck!